[4:46]<jsp> ok, well at least it only took me 20 min to redo my users thing to use the helma stuff correctly [4:47]<jsp> thanks again for the pointer [4:48]<jsp> have you done anything with building a more sophisticated user authentication atop Helma's users? e.g., don't store the passwords in plain text, provide cookie tokens to automatically login if desired, etc.? [19:59]<rjb_> re [19:59]<rjb_> any of you guys have an opinion on phobos? [20:00]<rjb_> https://phobos.dev.java.net/ [20:02]<zumbrunn> from what I've seen it looks rather code-in-template centric [20:02]<zumbrunn> as opposed to "rails-ish" [20:03]<zumbrunn> but I think it is good for "javascript on the server-side" that it exists [20:04]<zumbrunn> how well do you know it, rjb_? [20:04]<rjb_> not at all [20:05]<rjb_> i just learned of its existence [20:09]<jsp> looks like too heavy on the heavy java stuff. and I don't really trust the sun folks to do something actually dynamic [20:10]<rjb_> they want you to use netbeans for even the simplest tutorial example [20:10]<jsp> yeah. that's the sort of thing I mean [20:11]<rjb_> puts me off a little [20:12]<jsp> and javascript is actually extraordinarily difficult to do a good IDE for, so I think these are in descending order of likeliness: "the IDE is important b/c you have to do lots of boiler-plate garbage as is common in Java" "the IDE helps if you use JavaScript in the suggested limited way" and "they've actually written a good javascript IDE" [20:14]<zumbrunn> you forgot the most likely one: "the IDE helps if you want to avoid actually writing any Javascript" ;-) [20:14]<jsp> heh [20:14]<jsp> if you do try it, let us know. gtg for now myself [21:14]<rjb_> well i don't think i'll be actually trying it, was just curious [22:41]<rjb> what i definitely do plan to play with though is the h2 database [23:55]<rjb> yay, henplus (http://henplus.sourceforge.net/) works very nicely with h2