Hopbot log for 2007-09-26 - Helma IRC channel: #helma on irc.freenode.net

2007-09-26:

[9:59] <zumbrunn> aha
[9:59] <zumbrunn> welcome back, hopbot
[15:43] <typicaljoe> good morning
[15:48] <zumbrunn> hi typicaljoe
[15:48] <typicaljoe> how are you zzumbrunn?
[15:48] <zumbrunn> good!
[15:49] <typicaljoe> the same from zumbrunn.com?
[15:49] <zumbrunn> yes
[15:49] <zumbrunn> and which typicaljoe are you?
[15:50] <typicaljoe> lol, if I'm known for anything it would be joesgoals.com
[15:50] <bmarvell> are there any examples of helma in the wild?
[15:50] <typicaljoe> but that isn't a helma thing :-) might be one day if I ever get around to making my first app
[15:51] <zumbrunn> zumbrunn.com of course is running on helma ;-)
[15:51] <typicaljoe> nice
[15:51] <zumbrunn> better examples are antville.org and twoday.net
[15:52] <zumbrunn> a lot of orf.at sites are based on helma
[15:52] <zumbrunn> but I'm not sure exactly which ones are and which ones not
[15:52] <typicaljoe> did you end up deploying Helma on apache for your site?
[15:52] <zumbrunn> mine is just running jetty
[15:53] <zumbrunn> (directly)
[15:54] <typicaljoe> run into any performance issues?
[15:54] <zumbrunn> no, not so far
[15:55] <zumbrunn> orf.at and knallgrau.at are the ones with the most experience in that regard
[15:55] <zumbrunn> (that I'm aware of)
[15:57] <zumbrunn> http://michi.knallgrau.at/blog/stories/1705139/
[16:00] <zumbrunn> (they later switched to a helmaswarm setup)
[16:00] <zumbrunn> http://helma.org/pipermail/helma-dev/2007-June/003679.html
[16:05] <bmarvell> cheers
[16:05] <zumbrunn> hi bmarvell
[16:05] <bmarvell> hi btw ;)
[16:06] <bmarvell> so im sure this has been asked 1000 times
[16:06] <bmarvell> but is this similar to rails at all?
[16:07] <zumbrunn> helma predates rails
[16:07] <bmarvell> oh ok
[16:07] <bmarvell> is helma currently the most popular javascript web framework?
[16:08] <zumbrunn> it is similar, since it also does codeless mapping og objects to database tables
[16:08] <bmarvell> ah ok
[16:08] <zumbrunn> I believe so, yes
[16:08] <bmarvell> and does it generate all the CRUD that rails does aswell
[16:08] <bmarvell> it really looks like an interesting project
[16:09] <zumbrunn> no, out of the box it doesn't do the scaffolding stuff that rails does
[16:09] <zumbrunn> not in the CRUD sense, anyway
[16:09] <bmarvell> k
[16:09] <bmarvell> i see
[16:10] <zumbrunn> a pretty easy place to start is by disecting the welcome app
[16:10] <zumbrunn> specifically the HopObject folder inside that app
[16:11] <bmarvell> cheers, i think i'm gonna have a look into it this weekend
[16:11] <zumbrunn> that actually comes close to a very simple CRUD example
[16:11] <bmarvell> cool
[16:11] <zumbrunn> (basically, just the "D" part is missing)
[16:12] <zumbrunn> https://dev.helma.org/trac/helma/browser/apps/welcome/trunk/code/HopObject
[16:12] <bmarvell> which isnt the main part i'd be interessted in anyways
[16:13] <bmarvell> thanks
[16:14] <zumbrunn> your can see that code working here:
[16:14] <zumbrunn> http://helma.zumbrunn.net/first/second/
[16:14] <zumbrunn> *you* can
[16:16] <bmarvell> great cheers
[16:35] <typicaljoe> ok, so here is a question for you zumbrunn, am I just crazy for wanting to break out of the HOPObject model? I come from a ColdFusion background where I write a lot of my own SQL and I am more inclined to map my own urls (app/recordid) to SQL lookups than use Helmas built in way of doing this.
[16:37] <zumbrunn> you are not crazy, you're just used to doing things a certain way
[16:37] <zumbrunn> which we all are
[16:37] <zumbrunn> you can bend helma in the direction you want
[16:38] <zumbrunn> most likely you'll more and more start to see areas?situations where the "helma way" is the better way
[16:38] <zumbrunn> and you can start shifting there where it makes sense to you
[16:39] <typicaljoe> yeah, the main thing that I don't get is that, aside from Blog type applications, most of the things I work on have a whole bunch of dependent (report like) data for any page a user views. so they wouldn't view /app/users/userID and just see the user record, they would see a whole bunch of log information, friends, messages, etc.
[16:39] <typicaljoe> you are probably right, I need to "get it" a little bit more than I do before going to far.
[16:42] <zumbrunn> so, they would view app/record/
[16:42] <zumbrunn> no?
[16:43] <zumbrunn> app/records/recordA app/records/recordB
[16:44] <typicaljoe> they would in same cases certainly. such as app/user/messageID
[16:46] <typicaljoe> and that is great, I'm just a little scared of trying to do it both ways as in map a url for /app/user and them map objects for /app/user/messageID. but I realize I'll have to do some digging to setup my first app and try several different ways.
[16:47] <zumbrunn> maybe you are looking for /app/user/messages/messageID ?
[16:48] <zumbrunn> what is "user" in your example?
[16:48] <zumbrunn> a username?
[16:48] <typicaljoe> yeah, most likely
[16:49] <zumbrunn> so, app/zumbrunn/messages/foobar
[16:50] <zumbrunn> app/zumbrunn/friends/foo etc
[16:51] <typicaljoe> right, but app/zumbrunn would be a page built with all sorts of information and app/zumbrunn/messages would contain a sortable list of messages (for example). Or maybe a nested sort so messages would be grouped by friend.
[16:52] <zumbrunn> right, so, each would be a different prototype
[16:52] <zumbrunn> for example User, MessageList and Message
[16:54] <zumbrunn> afk
[22:31] <typicaljoe> any reddit users here?

 

 

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