Hopbot log for 2008-01-24 - Helma IRC channel: #helma on irc.freenode.net

2008-01-24:

[3:31] <midnightmonste1> chris, I think it's pretty doubtful that jquery
[3:31] <midnightmonste1> 's ever going to work on e4x
[3:31] <midnightmonste1> at least not in general
[3:32] <midnightmonste1> but E4X in Rhino (unlike spidermonkey) is built on a standard XML DOM, so it seems like with some work we could find a way to expose the standard XML DOM as well
[3:33] <midnightmonste1> (which jquery could then use, of course)
[8:13] <zumbrunn> another problem with E4X currently is that XML and XMLList are not exposed as proper js prototypes either
[8:14] <zumbrunn> which means they can't be expanded
[20:30] <midnightmonste1> that's with the e4x spec, though, not just the rhino implementation
[22:12] <zumbrunn> that doesn't make me love it more :-)
[22:13] <midnightmonste1> no indeed
[22:14] <zumbrunn> it just came up on the rhino list as well today
[22:14] <zumbrunn> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.tech.js-engine.rhino/browse_thread/thread/1467cc6100376e02#03848918ce3ade0a
[22:15] <midnightmonste1> yeah... I had learned the reason it couldn't be done before, but I forgot
[22:17] <midnightmonste1> at some point I think I will see if I can hack the rhino source to add toHTMLString(). to get to a first implementation, I think it will actually be harder to get a java build environment going than it will be to actually add the functionality
[22:18] <zumbrunn> why is it hard to get a jde going?
[22:18] <zumbrunn> which platform are you on?
[22:18] <zumbrunn> jdk I meant
[22:18] <midnightmonste1> windows. I just haven't done it since I did an independent study in college.
[22:19] <midnightmonste1> I have the jdk
[22:19] <midnightmonste1> I just don't know how to build the rhino source
[22:19] <zumbrunn> do you have ant?
[22:19] <midnightmonste1> no.
[22:19] <midnightmonste1> nothing oriented to java dev
[22:19] <zumbrunn> that's probably all that's missing
[22:19] <midnightmonste1> (except the jdk, of course, 'cause I wanted the hotspot vm for helma)
[22:21] <zumbrunn> and on the server, do you have a jdk there, or just a jde?
[22:22] <midnightmonste1> jdk, I think
[22:22] <zumbrunn> and ant isn't there either?
[22:22] <midnightmonste1> (jde==jre, right?)
[22:22] <midnightmonste1> dunno?
[22:22] <zumbrunn> right, damn
[22:22] <midnightmonste1> didn't try there
[22:22] <midnightmonste1> for all I know ant is on my windows box, too
[22:23] <midnightmonste1> but unless it comes with the sun jdk it isn't there either
[22:23] <zumbrunn> if, so, you could just check out rhino, cd to the build dir and type ant dist
[22:25] <midnightmonste1> the code stuff should just be copy-pasting the toXMLString code with some straightforward code to handle which empty elements get minimized and which need to be expanded
[22:26] <midnightmonste1> on my server, typing java gets online help for java, typing ant gets command not found
[22:31] <midnightmonste1> not used to ubuntu (on my other server) yet--looks like this is as easy as:
[22:31] <midnightmonste1> apt-get install ant
[22:32] <zumbrunn> otherwise I can always compile it for you, if you like
[22:38] <midnightmonste1> cvs checkout seems to be working
[22:45] <midnightmonste1> ant is failing b/c it can't find javac
[22:45] <midnightmonste1> I can't either
[22:46] <zumbrunn> then it's a jre, i guess, not a jdk
[22:52] <midnightmonste1> sun makes it so hard to download junk'
[22:53] <zumbrunn> yeah, I know that hassle from installing it on freebsd
[22:53] <midnightmonste1> have to download 60MB to the desktop, then upload to the server
[22:56] <midnightmonste1> re: jaxer, a lot of the folks I talk to (baby, baby devs) get sort of confused between the whole server-side and client-side thing. (like how PHP on the server and JS on the client interact)
[22:56] <midnightmonste1> I wonder if jaxer would help or confuse them more
[22:57] <zumbrunn> yes, I think I agree with that
[22:57] <zumbrunn> I was thinking about the same thing today
[22:57] <midnightmonste1> ask questions like "how can I pass a value from PHP to JavaScript"
[23:00] <midnightmonste1> having some kind of DOM on the server is, IMO, undoubtedly desirable. I am done done done with XSS attacks and having to build my pages from top to bottom. I just think the standard DOM sucks, and having the DOM be a native data structure is even better than jquery
[23:00] <midnightmonste1> er, the DOM->e4x as a native data structure is better
[23:04] <midnightmonste1> the better thing, undoubtedly, would be being able to use jquery together with e4x. b/c I'm not willing to $('some selector').append('<a href="#">a link</a>'); when I should be able to $('some selector').append(<a href="#">a link</a>);
[23:05] <midnightmonste1> jquery lets you stick strings of HTML into the DOM because making elements in the standard DOM is so onerous. but that should never be done in e4x world
[23:07] <zumbrunn> another aspect of jaxer is how it automatically makes server-side functions available on the client-side
[23:07] <zumbrunn> (unless I'm reading something in to it that isn't there)
[23:07] <midnightmonste1> no, that's there
[23:07] <zumbrunn> pretty easy to add in jhino
[23:07] <zumbrunn> I just started with that a bit ago
[23:08] <zumbrunn> and I have one more filename suffix convention as a result
[23:08] <zumbrunn> I called those bits "fetchlets"
[23:08] <midnightmonste1> alright, time for me to go to costco. ttyl
[23:10] <zumbrunn> if you define a foo.fetchlet (like you would with foo.hac and in jhino with foo.macro) you get a function "foo" on the client-side....
[23:10] <zumbrunn> that invokes the foo fetchlet on the server side

 

 

In the channel now:

Logs by date: