Hopbot log for 2008-07-28 - Helma IRC channel: #helma on irc.freenode.net

2008-07-28:

[4:54] <bslivka> If you were to make a module which defined a type of hopobject
[4:55] <bslivka> how would you allow the users of that module to specify how they want the object to be persisted?
[6:20] <zumbrunn> bslivka: by dynamically setting the type.properties, I guess?
[6:51] <bslivka> Hrnm
[6:51] <bslivka> so you picked up on that thread on helma-list eh?
[6:51] <zumbrunn> yep :-)
[7:03] <bslivka> I'm afraid I haven't quite figured out how that discovery is useful to me.
[7:03] <bslivka> have you?
[7:04] <zumbrunn> no, but it looked useful when you described it :-)
[7:06] <zumbrunn> it seems it should allow you to do what apparently you need to do, if you say you want to generate subtypes of hopobjects for which the user can specify the way they are persisted, no?
[7:08] <bslivka> Yeah.
[7:09] <zumbrunn> so, apparently you *have* figured out how that discovery is useful to you
[7:09] <bslivka> Almost
[7:09] <bslivka> except that after asking maks the same question, he convinced me that I didn't want to do that in the first place
[7:10] <zumbrunn> lol
[7:13] <bslivka> He had a solution that sounded good on paper, except now that I've sat down to implement it, I must admit that I'm puzzled about exactly how to go about it.
[7:18] <bslivka> Oh well, I'll figure it out. Thanks
[14:36] <simono> the constructor() function.. does it behave like the JS constructor? i'm to lazy to try this, but could i use it to define private vars and private methods?
[14:41] <simono> smth like this contrieved example http://helma.pastebin.com/m5ae099ab
[14:43] <midnightmonster> no reason that should work
[14:43] <midnightmonster> shouldn't, I mean
[14:43] <midnightmonster> sorry
[14:43] <midnightmonster> so: it should work
[14:43] <simono> hehe k thanks, i couldnt find anything about "constructor" in the wiki and was too lazy to try it
[14:43] <midnightmonster> but remember that you have to restart the app to have changes to constructor take effect
[14:43] <simono> ah good tip
[14:43] <simono> .. hint
[14:49] <midnightmonster> also, you probably know this, but this.getOwnerPublic can just access ownerPrivate directly, too. It doesn't have to use getOwnerPrivate
[15:29] <decke> i don't know if someone cares but it might be interesting if you have user uploaded files and more then one Webserver
[15:31] <decke> if you want to be able to handle uploads on more than one webserver and centralize all that uploaded content you have to use NFS, Samba, Master-Master Filesystem Replication or other resource hungry, slow or ugly things
[15:33] <decke> i solved the problem with an fastcgi based process written in C that gives me an RESTful API and is a lot more leightweight
[15:33] <decke> it's BSD licensed and feedback is welcome ... http://www.bluelife.at/project/mediaservice/
[15:41] <midnightmonster> decke, thanks for the info
[15:42] <decke> hopefully it saves someone a bit of time or headaches...
[15:42] <decke> and an Helma Client is work in progress
[15:42] <midnightmonster> cool
[15:42] <midnightmonster> I can't think of any use I'd have for this right now, but it looks neat
[15:43] <decke> should not be that much work... just like you said take helma.Http.setContent() and push the content to it
[15:46] <midnightmonster> the storage needs for my secret plan to take over the world are embarrassingly parallel--no need to centralize
[15:54] <decke> that's the good thing on fastcgi - load balancing on this thing is handled on the webserver so you can keep it parallel and handle really great loads (which you can expect from a plan of that size)
[15:56] <decke> i haven't benchmarked it yet because i really need more power on the clients to stress that thing a bit *g*
[16:01] <midnightmonster> :-) I don't have a strong intuition yet where the bottlenecks will be on my app (which is just as well since such intuitions are usually wrong)
[16:01] <midnightmonster> but it consists of many accounts which don't have to talk to each other at all
[16:02] <midnightmonster> so I can just add users to a server until it starts to slow down then get another one
[16:23] <Helma2> -
[16:24] <zumbrunn> +
[16:24] <Helma2> :) hi, I am confused, I have never used IRC, how can I get a screen name?
[16:25] <zumbrunn> you can change it using somthing like "/nick thenewme"
[16:26] <Helma2> h
[16:26] <zumbrunn> :-)
[16:26] <jirkap> thank you
[16:33] <jirkap> I'd like to ask you a question as I am unable to get Helma connected with Apache through mod_jk, and I couldn't find any relevant article/help on this topic. I followed the howto tutorial(s) at Helma.org about six times, but I always get stuck with mod_jk. When I enable it, the Apache just won't (re)start giving me error messages in the log file I don't understand at all...
[16:38] <zumbrunn> jirkap: is this the one you followed? ...
[16:38] <zumbrunn> http://helma.org/docs/howtos/mod_jk/
[16:43] <decke> jirkap: what does the error message say?
[16:44] <jirkap> zumbrunn > the one you mention and this: http://dev.helma.org/wiki/Workspace/maks/HelmaWithApache2/
[16:45] <zumbrunn> btw, if using mod_jk is to painful, you might want to consider using mod_proxy instead
[16:46] <zumbrunn> mod_proxy configs are pretty straight forward
[16:46] <zumbrunn> something like this:
[16:46] <zumbrunn> <VirtualHost 192.168.0.10>
[16:46] <zumbrunn> ServerName www.foodomain.tld
[16:46] <zumbrunn> ServerAdmin admin@foodomain.tld
[16:46] <zumbrunn> ProxyPass / ajp://localhost:8009/fooapp/
[16:46] <zumbrunn> </VirtualHost>
[16:47] <jirkap> I'm going to try it no, thanks
[16:47] <jirkap> now
[16:54] <jirkap> decke > The error msg:
[16:54] <jirkap> Syntax error on line 131 of C:/Program Files/Apache Software Foundation/Apache2.2/conf/httpd.conf:
[16:54] <jirkap> JkWorkersFile takes one argument, the name of a worker file for the Tomcat servlet containers
[16:55] <decke> seems like you are missing some quotes?
[16:55] <jirkap> (OS 995)<a msg in my OS language> winnt_accept: Asynchronous AcceptEx failed.
[16:57] <jirkap> well, it crossed my mind, and I saw it on some website, and I also tried it, but it did not work anyway...
[16:57] <decke> a quick lookup on google tells me it could be caused by an "stupid" firewall
[16:57] <decke> but mod_proxy is the better solution anyway...
[16:59] <decke> and you seem to be using it on windows - so if you don't already know that you don't need apache for developing and testing you might find the buildin jetty server useful
[17:01] <decke> apache is good for production boxes but jetty is good enough for development and testing and helma includes jetty per default
[17:07] <jirkap> well, I am not very experienced in all of this, so you are probably right :) I know about Jetty, in fact, I don't really know what I am connecting to the Apache for. Because I don't get the whole thing: let's say, in the future, I develope an application using Helma. I want to put in on some paid webhost. What parameters should the webhost have? I get the JRE, but most run Apache (or MS). So how will I get it to work?
[17:08] <decke> i don't know any helma webspace like you know it from PHP
[17:09] <decke> you will need an rootserver, vserver or something similar where you can have an root shell that lets you install all the software you need
[17:10] <decke> that will be an JRE, helma and an webserver which you choose - it could be Apache, Lighttpd or if you like you can also take the buildin jetty
[17:11] <zumbrunn> the main reason why people usually choose not to deploy directly with jetty and put apache in between is because you would need to run jetty as root in order to serve on port 80
[17:12] <zumbrunn> personally, I don't think that much of a problem as long as the app is isolated in a jail or small virtual server
[17:13] <zumbrunn> that*s*
[17:15] <decke> and if you have many static files to serve jetty is a bit slow doing that...
[17:16] <decke> zumbrunn: i don't know if you already know but the FreeBSD helma port is ready for testing (but not yet submitted to the freebsd ports tree)
[17:17] <zumbrunn> yep, I tested it again
[17:17] <zumbrunn> it seems to work fine for me
[17:17] <zumbrunn> (sorry, forgot to mention it)
[17:17] <decke> good to hear that...
[17:18] <zumbrunn> I'm not using it in production
[17:18] <zumbrunn> I just made a test setup
[17:18] <decke> i have 2 weeks of holiday now so i hope i can catch up with a few things that got behind ...
[17:18] <zumbrunn> and that seemed to work
[17:18] <decke> like submitting the helma patches and so on
[17:18] <jirkap> decke > is there a name for such a hosting service you are refering to? I mean, what should I seek for?
[17:18] <zumbrunn> "virtual server"
[17:18] <decke> that would be: virtual server (which are cheap nowadays)
[17:19] <decke> or if you need a bit more power ... you would take an rootserver which is nothing more then an server that is dedicated to you
[17:23] <decke> oh and ignore "microsoft virtual server" that's a software product and NOT an webspace provider
[17:24] <jirkap> guys, thank you both. I guess I am now a bit closer to the whole thing :) btw. that mod_proxy thing works! I guess, I will show up here again soon :) Thanks again
[17:24] <decke> you're welcome
[17:28] <zumbrunn> for best results, ignore anything with the word microsoft in it, on it or near it
[17:28] <zumbrunn> look for the three letters B S D instead ;-)
[17:29] <decke> .oO( i'm not on ##freebsd right? )
[17:33] <zumbrunn> hehe... couldn't resist
[17:33] <zumbrunn> at least I waited until jirkap was gone
[17:34] <decke> i know - BSD makes me smile too every day when i see the uptime of that little cute boxes
[17:37] <decke> and i have to setup an 1GBit router today so it's a good day and one more freebsd box

 

 

In the channel now:

Logs by date: