Hopbot log for 2008-07-29 - Helma IRC channel: #helma on irc.freenode.net

2008-07-29:

[14:43] <phil_s> is helma something similar to gwt?
[14:44] <decke> what is gwt?
[14:44] <zumbrunn_> helma uses javascript on the server-side
[14:44] <zumbrunn_> it doesn't just generate javascript to send to the client-side
[14:45] <phil_s> sounds kind of like rhino
[14:45] <zumbrunn_> the point of gwt is to avoid javascript and write everything in java
[14:45] <zumbrunn_> it uses rhino
[14:45] <phil_s> so in helma javascript can talk to mysql for example?
[14:45] <zumbrunn_> for example, yes
[14:45] <phil_s> cool
[14:46] <zumbrunn_> it also offers a orm layer, so you can avoid having to talk to mysql directly
[14:46] <zumbrunn_> and let the framework do that for you
[14:47] <phil_s> and when you deploy helma, it looks like you deploy an instance of helma to the server for each website, right? its a standalone framework, sort of like RoR?
[14:47] <zumbrunn_> yes
[14:48] <phil_s> wow, it seems like everyday i learn about a new framework... but one that uses rhino, now thats really interesting
[14:48] <zumbrunn_> what RoR is for Ruby, and Django is for Python, Helma is for Javascript
[14:49] <zumbrunn_> plus you can directly use any java libraries, thanks to rhino
[14:49] <phil_s> have you heard of anything like rhino for lisp?
[14:49] <phil_s> a jvm and framework i mean
[14:49] <zumbrunn_> you mean lisp as a language on the jvm?
[14:50] <zumbrunn_> can't say for sure
[14:50] <zumbrunn_> I feel like I should remember something, but can't quite do so right now
[14:50] <phil_s> anyway, javascript is great so i'd be really excited to use that on the server side
[14:53] <phil_s> is the output of helma standard html usually, or does it output to a java applet?
[14:53] <zumbrunn_> helma embeds the jetty http server
[14:54] <zumbrunn_> you could also deploy helma apps behind tomcat, though
[14:54] <phil_s> awesome
[14:55] <phil_s> i got worried for a second with the though of applets
[14:55] <zumbrunn_> I know some people do this, but deploying using jetty is far more common
[14:55] <zumbrunn_> (deploying through tomcat)
[14:55] <zumbrunn_> damn...
[14:56] <zumbrunn_> jetty == common
[14:56] <zumbrunn_> tomcat == uncommon
[14:56] <phil_s> thanks for the answers, i'm going to start playing with helma
[14:56] <zumbrunn_> :-)
[22:21] <phil_s> helma looks amazing, how long has this been around? do you have a list of sites using it?
[22:22] <zumbrunn_> it's been around for about 10 years
[22:22] <zumbrunn_> opensource since 2001
[22:22] <zumbrunn_> http://dev.helma.org/wiki/Sites+using+Helma/
[22:23] <zumbrunn_> http://dev.helma.org/ng/Background+and+History/
[22:26] <phil_s> i like that is uses jetty and delivers plain html, but you can use so much templating behind the scenes
[22:26] <zumbrunn_> plus e4x
[22:26] <zumbrunn_> don't forget e4x!
[22:27] <zumbrunn_> you can't really use it on the client since most browser can't handle it
[22:28] <zumbrunn_> but on the server it becomes handy as an extension to the classic ways of helma templating
[22:28] <phil_s> yeah, thats why i like the plain html, its going to work anywhere. you dont even have to depend of javascript being available to the client
[22:29] <zumbrunn_> yep
[22:30] <zumbrunn_> except for the things you really want to do on the client-side, of course
[22:31] <phil_s> i need to read more docs... its looks like it has some conventions for routing, does it have some mvc conventions?
[22:32] <zumbrunn_> yes, sure
[22:32] <zumbrunn_> hopobjects provide the "model"
[22:32] <zumbrunn_> actions the "controls"
[22:32] <zumbrunn_> and skins the "views"
[22:33] <zumbrunn_> depends a bit on where you want to draw the lines between m v and c
[22:33] <zumbrunn_> there are different ways of looking at it
[22:33] <phil_s> yes, i see the skins, those are great. looks like you can have some micro templating for little bits of html
[22:34] <phil_s> i like m by itself, and v and c close together
[22:37] <phil_s> but im still learning stuff.. i love writing in javascript. i think its a great language
[22:38] <zumbrunn_> couldn't agree more
[23:28] <phil_s> are there helma tshirts or hats?

 

 

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