Hopbot log for 2008-10-03 - Helma IRC channel: #helma on irc.freenode.net

2008-10-03:

[7:06] <mindlike> anyone up?
[7:14] <zumbrunn> hi mindlike
[7:33] <mindlike> hey there
[7:33] <mindlike> i was trying to get helma running in eclipse
[7:33] <mindlike> you think you can help?
[7:34] <mindlike> or netbeans or whatever you use
[7:34] <mindlike> emacs?
[7:35] <zumbrunn> how do you want to integrate it in eclipse?
[7:35] <zumbrunn> what exactly do you have in mind?
[7:35] <mindlike> just as a project
[7:35] <mindlike> remember that applet question too? probably for that in the end
[7:36] <zumbrunn> I never build it through eclipse directly myself
[7:36] <mindlike> just ant?
[7:36] <zumbrunn> I just go to the shell to do that
[7:36] <zumbrunn> right
[7:37] <mindlike> so you don't use any ide for java stuff?
[7:37] <zumbrunn> I used to use eclipse
[7:37] <zumbrunn> but basically as an editor and for version control
[7:37] <zumbrunn> for building, I still went to the shell
[7:37] <mindlike> what about that applet question
[7:38] <zumbrunn> what about it? :-)
[7:38] <mindlike> if I can figure out how to get it into an applet i'm good to go
[7:38] <mindlike> just want to figure out how to do it
[7:38] <zumbrunn> no idea
[7:38] <mindlike> oh actually its prolly easy
[7:39] <mindlike> i just dl the source for helma, compile it in and call the init function from javascript
[7:39] <zumbrunn> like I said, I think sun's webstart stuff relates to this
[7:39] <mindlike> i need it working in browser
[7:39] <zumbrunn> so I would go and take a look at whether that is the case
[7:39] <mindlike> that just helps with getting it out of browser
[7:39] <mindlike> like the download link does now.. not much diff
[7:39] <mindlike> applet would be dramatically different for my purposes :)
[7:41] <mindlike> remember i want to use it as a local app proxy for ajax and flex stuff so it'd need to be running on the same page parallel
[7:42] <mindlike> http://tobiaspatton.wordpress.com/2007/08/29/using-a-signed-java-applet-as-a-flex-helper-part-2/
[7:42] <mindlike> like this guy is doing
[7:49] <zumbrunn> yeah, I remember what you wanted to do
[7:49] <mindlike> cool
[7:49] <zumbrunn> what would you want the applet to do then, though
[7:49] <zumbrunn> wouldn't you want that it installs helma locally
[7:50] <zumbrunn> and then controls and communicates with that local helma
[7:50] <mindlike> which is 'that'
[7:50] <zumbrunn> basically, an applet that installs the various jars
[7:50] * zumbrunn runs them
[7:50] <zumbrunn> and controls them
[7:51] <mindlike> if its done with an applet the user doesn't feel like they're doing any installing .. they just trust a cert
[7:51] <zumbrunn> right, same thing
[7:51] <mindlike> so its more of a percption thing
[7:51] <zumbrunn> the user would just hit a page, trust the applet, and everything else would be transparent
[7:51] <mindlike> but I think an important one if you're going to push it into these unforged territories I want to create
[7:52] <zumbrunn> what's the perception thing you are talking about?
[7:52] <zumbrunn> I don't see a perception difference
[7:53] <mindlike> oh if you have to unzip a file, read readme, then choose a dir, open a shell, run it
[7:53] <mindlike> web start less so but then you feel like you're installing something
[7:53] <zumbrunn> the applet would do that
[7:53] <mindlike> and that requires a little more trust than an applet
[7:53] <zumbrunn> well, not the reading the readme part ;-)
[7:53] <mindlike> so the perception is trust I suppose
[7:54] <mindlike> if the applet does the readme for them and the unarchiving and the ui application is already loaded just waiting for the applet to finish
[7:54] <mindlike> it'd be like instant helma node creation!
[7:57] <mindlike> once applet is there you can send messages to helma, binary data, whatever
[7:57] <zumbrunn> again, what I'm describing is kind of what http://wua.la/ is doing
[7:58] <mindlike> did you say they use helma at all?
[7:59] <zumbrunn> oh wow! it's snowing!!!
[7:59] <zumbrunn> no, they don't
[7:59] <zumbrunn> what they are doing is not related in anyway like that
[8:00] <mindlike> yeah dude this is nothing new
[8:00] <mindlike> this is like azureus or the dozens others out there
[8:00] <zumbrunn> just that they have an applet, that then downloads and install other stuff to the client
[8:01] <mindlike> yeah but it goes out of browser.. the thing i'm talking about is most like bitlet.org
[8:01] <mindlike> in that they have ajax ui interacting with a local jetty process presumably
[8:01] <zumbrunn> but you wouldn't have to go out of browser
[8:01] <mindlike> or some custom server they wrote like helma
[8:01] <mindlike> with jala
[8:02] <zumbrunn> it's only out of browser because they stuff they install and run happens to open local windows
[8:02] <zumbrunn> which would happen as well with helma if you would enable the debugger, for example
[8:03] <mindlike> so you mean its in chrome
[8:03] <mindlike> or in same browser jvm
[8:03] <zumbrunn> oh, ok
[8:03] <zumbrunn> I see, yes, it would be out of browser
[8:03] <mindlike> checkout bitlet.org
[8:03] <mindlike> just plugin a torrent url any
[8:04] <mindlike> this is a new way of writing synthetic java / ajax / flex applications
[8:04] <zumbrunn> yeah, then what you are trying to do gets more difficult
[8:04] <mindlike> allows you to decentralize and not install things perse
[8:04] <mindlike> but keep apps bound to pages/domains/web objects
[8:04] <mindlike> ie widgets
[8:05] <mindlike> snowing.. lucky
[8:05] <mindlike> it was 100 here today
[8:05] <mindlike> in los angeles
[8:05] <zumbrunn> uff
[8:13] <mindlike> hey.. chris is it?
[8:14] <zumbrunn> I knew Attila was talking about Hannes, I knew it, I knew it
[8:14] <zumbrunn> mindlike: yes
[8:14] <mindlike> how long you been working on helma?
[8:15] <zumbrunn> "with helma"
[8:15] <mindlike> oh who would be on?
[8:15] <zumbrunn> some time in 2004?
[8:15] <zumbrunn> not sure
[8:16] <zumbrunn> and of 2003 maybe
[8:16] <zumbrunn> end of
[8:16] <mindlike> you invented it?
[8:16] <zumbrunn> no, no
[8:16] <mindlike> sorry its probably documented
[8:16] <zumbrunn> hannes is the helma man
[8:16] <mindlike> ah
[8:16] <zumbrunn> I'm just helping on the side lines
[8:18] <zumbrunn> helma started 10 years ago
[8:18] <zumbrunn> as a project at the ORF
[8:19] <zumbrunn> http://orf.at/
[8:19] <zumbrunn> kind of the austrian equivalent to the british BBC
[8:19] <mindlike> media project
[8:20] <mindlike> yeah i noticed that is has a lot in common with drupal
[8:20] <mindlike> and i picked that up at a media co
[8:20] <mindlike> i like how its abstracted, simple, hopefully easy to optimize further for my purposes.
[8:20] <mindlike> i have to at least get going in some kind of hacking mode with it
[8:20] <mindlike> besides just running the startup script :)
[8:22] <mindlike> so all i really need is a recent jdk, helma, ant, and my path vars set correctly

 

 

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